This is Waste to Wealth, a podcast about turning your waste hauling business into a profitable, scalable cash flowing machine. And now, here's your host, Michael Welcome to Ways to Wealth. I'm your host, Michael McCall. And today we have a special guest, Jennifer Horvath. And we're going to talk today about her business and her experience. And she's got some great insight to how you can thrive. So So, um, I, I, you and I met through a coaching group. I'll be transparent about that. We're in the elite coaching group with Dan Martell, which has been fantastic for me. So I'm really great. Glad to make your acquaintance and meet you on an And so you have, you have a business right now and what I, I did. I'd like you to talk about it, what you're doing today, and then we can talk about how you got into it. So the primary thing that I am working on right now is my husband and I have a tile and carpet cleaning company that we purchased, and That's awesome. So that's currently the primary thing. We have other irons in the fire and we're involved in business in different ways, but I would say that's the main Yeah. Well, that's great. Well, I want to dive into that, but first, well, maybe I should ask you where you're at. You said you're in Florida right now, but you're not originally from Florida, but how long Oh, so pretty recently, not too long. What brought you A few reasons, but the main one is we were ready for a change and we were ready for some sun and some summer weather all year long. Yep. And so that was a huge motivating factor. And we were also, as I said, ready for a change. And we wanted a new challenge and a new adventure. And so we sort of balled it up all into one. So instead of just deciding to move to a new country, we said, why not make it that much harder on ourselves and move to a new country? And buy a business in something we know nothing about and in an industry we have zero experience in, and let's just go for it and jump off the cliff. And that's what we Well, it sounds like it. So I, I relocated about six years ago from upstate New York to North Carolina. And I moved from the snow belt to, you know, sunny, warm weather. We rarely get snow. So as a Canadian, you probably were used to snow all the time. I mean, it must've been cold half the year. So is that, is that why one of Yeah, it is one of the reasons. Montreal, where I'm from, is on a snow belt, so we had a ton of snow. And, I mean, we're not skiers or, you know, kind of winter sports people, so the snow's pretty, but after, you know, Leek, you want it around Christmas, and then you're like, okay, we're good. Um, but it doesn't work like that. So yeah, it's nice. Obviously a super nice change to be in the sunshine all the time. And we have mango trees in our backyard and you know, I feel like I'm in the sound of music where like, you know, you go out and like birds are tweeting and they like land on your, or like Yeah. Well, there's way, way more nature when you have sun all year round and you seem like you're really into health, like very much so. And I noticed that you, you are a Pilates instructor and that you probably have a lot of tips on how to eat healthy. I was actually going to ask you some of those things so we can get to that. Um, but how did you get onto this journey? What inspired you to buy a business and specifically this one, a home services business when you just said you, it's Yeah. So, um, I have been in business pretty much my whole life. I bought into my first business when I was 23 years old. So that was about 25 years ago, a little bit more. And, um, I really had always that desire and that entrepreneurial spirit. I was in the fitness business at the time, and so I bought into a boutique gym, downtown Montreal, and I was going to school full-time. I was doing my bachelor's degree, then I did my master's degree, but all the time I was studying or, you know, working as a fitness trainer or whatever the like, I always had business on the side and so I was well on the side I was doing both full-time essentially so And I really love that. And I always told myself, I was studying, you know, when I was doing my master's degree, I was studying academically. And I, I always had this dream and I was seeing in my head, Oh, I can't wait until I become a professor. Cause I was on track to do my PhD. And I was like, I can't wait to become a professor because then I could teach and have my career. And then when I retire, then I could just own businesses. And then I was like, that's kind of a dumb way of thinking about it. Like, why would you do that to yourself? And why, if it's something that's on your heart, why don't you just do it now? So after my master's degree, I decided just to go into business. And so I had, um, health and wellness business businesses, and, you know, I was always in health and wellness and fitness and all of that my whole life. Um, and then, It was always from a standpoint of either buying into a business, like becoming a partner in a business, co-founding a business with somebody, or just being a founder myself and starting my own thing. Really, really, really hard. Each has their own pros and cons. And it was sort of more recently that I was seeing online this kind of, you know, this nouveau sort of culture around boring businesses. And I got, I was watching a lot of Cody Sanchez's stuff and I thought, oh, that's really interesting. That's something I'd like to try my hand at one day is just having a boring business. And also I have no experience in the trades or in blue collar businesses or anything like that. And I was just curious to see if I had the chops. to do it and I understood or had a strong intuition that business skills translate because in any business I'd ever done, although it was in the same scope, in the same industry, they're still different businesses. And so, you know, leadership skills translate and management skills translate and sales skills translate. So no matter what widget you're talking about, you're still, the skills and all of that and the capacities, they still translate. So I thought this might be really interesting and let's try this. And then I had another goal, which was, I've always Yeah. So that was just kind of something I thought I'd love to like work towards that. And when I had my, when I had founded my own business years ago, it was a holistic health spa. I had no intention of selling it ever. Like that was my baby and I wanted to, you know, I thought I was building a wellness empire and all that stuff. But something changed along the way. And I was like, this is a really interesting trajectory. And I saw people doing it. And I thought, this is kind of fun because you start differently and you move through it differently with a different mindset and different eyes on it. And so I thought maybe this could be something really interesting for me. So I figured buying a boring business would check two boxes for me, which is wanting to acquire a business wholly, not just buying into a business as a partner, but acquiring a business wholly, going through that process in the boring Wow. And so you're on that journey at the moment, right? So you're building it to sell. Well, can I go back to when you were in college and you were getting your, your master's degree? So that's a really good, good insight. A lot of people do put their dreams way, way on hold, way, way into the future because they think it's not practical. So it must have been kind of scary to say, I have this degree, but I'm not going to just get a job and work with this degree. I'm actually going to start my own business because you probably had a lot of debt and starting a business, there's not like a blueprint to follow. It's not like you just step into it. You got to figure all these things out. So was that kind of scary or Yeah, it was super scary. I find as an entrepreneur, everything you do is scary if Yeah. Yeah, definitely is. I actually, that was one of my questions here for that. I'll just jump to this question. Cause it fits with it is, um, you know, before you started a business, you probably had an understanding of how the business world worked or what it was going to be like for you. And it sounds like you've had several businesses. So maybe, maybe this applies to several different circumstances, but what did you, what did you feel like before you started a business? And then what did you feel like after it and what belief did Yeah. So when I got into business, I didn't have any business experience. I wasn't studying business in school. And the only business sort of, I guess, experience you could say, or like model that I really had was watching my dad who was a solopreneur essentially. He was self-employed, he worked for himself, but that was the only kind of real world experience that I had or example. And so when I did get into business, I was running purely on instinct and intuition. And just someone who is, I think, like one of the qualities I have going for me is sort of a street practicality. And so those are the way that I made decisions in the business. But in terms of a belief that I held at the beginning versus now, I would say in the beginning, like one of the biggest things is I didn't trust myself because I had no formal training. And when I started in business, you know, 25 years ago, it was also a different climate for entrepreneurship. Like entrepreneurship wasn't cool like it is now. It wasn't really a thing. Like if you were an entrepreneur 25 or 30 years ago, essentially people thought you were unemployed. Right. Yeah. They didn't think it was a cool. Yeah. It wasn't cool. It Yeah. Like people would feel sorry for you. Like if you wrote that on an application or something, they'd be like, Oh, you're one Yeah. You couldn't get a job. So you decided to just work for And then if you were a woman, entrepreneur, it was a whole different thing as well. It was very much a man's domain. And one of the beliefs that I had, and again, not from any formal training or books, but just something that I felt is that leading the way with a heart-centered approach in business It was the way to do it. Being heart-centered as an owner, as a boss, with your team, with your clients, and essentially loving your people and loving people was the way to go. But that was just my mo as a person. And I got a lot of pushback with that in the beginning. And that's because, again, we're talking 25 plus years ago, right? And so a lot of the feedback that I got from well-meaning friends and family was things like, you know, oh, like they thought it was cute. And they were like, oh, you know, you're really sweet, but this is not business. Business, when you said, when you would say like, oh, you have to be more business, It all meant like you needed to be more like a shark. You needed to be more of a taker. You needed to get the edge. You needed to win above others and above all else. But I don't have that approach in business. My approach in business is we can both win. I don't need to win more than you. but we can both come out of this with a good deal and feel good about it. And there's just a way to do that, but we need to figure out how to do that. And so what happened is, and people said like, you know, there were some nasty things, like people said, oh, Jen, you're really sweet, but like, you'll never win in business, you know, or you're just not a shark enough or things like that. And it, it sort of settled with me and it planted seeds. And I began to not trust myself. Because again, I couldn't, I didn't have any real data to back it up. I was just trying things. And so I couldn't say, well, no, this study shows or no, I've done this before. Here's a success story. So I just trusted others opinions thinking they knew more than me. And then I went through that journey, but now on the other side of that, I realized I was actually right all along. Really? Yeah, for sure. And now, again, it's cool to be heart-centered. Talking about love in the workplace is not taboo. It was back It was, yeah. It used to be. It used to be, don't leave your emotions at the door. We're just going to talk about facts and I don't care about your feelings. Exactly. That's it. And, and like, you know, the the corporate culture of like, if you if you have something going on in your life, you don't bring it to work. And yes, of course, I don't, I I'm, I'm still, we're still running a business, we still have, you know, a mission to accomplish together. So there are certain things that you leave at the door. And I understand that. But what I mean is kind of just having having a heart, you know, having a heart for your clients and your people and all of that. And now that this sort of model has been validated, like, there's books written about heart-centered leadership. Companies are bringing in people to talk in workshops and seminars and talk about getting their managers to be having this heart-centered approach. And now that, I always say, now that old white dudes have accepted it and they're talking about it, it's been validated. And so now we can all talk about it as if it's totally cool. You know, so I think that belief has just come full circle and I'm like, oh, I should have really trusted myself all along, but here Well, that is still a problem today where people like managers don't value their people or treat them like humans. We should just treat other people like we want to be treated. If I'm employed, I would want to be treated with understanding when I have something going on at home and flexibility. And same thing with the customer relationship. I don't expect my customers to have to jump through hoops or vice versa. Yeah. I like, I like that word heart centered. I haven't heard it expressed that way, but that makes total sense. Like we're, we're putting that first. We're making sure that we're not neglecting why we're actually doing this because it's not just about making money. I mean, that is part of it. That's, that's actually more of a symptom of in life today. Yes, yes, exactly. And it's not even just like if we have something going on at home, there are times you have to suck it up. We're not We have a mission. So it's not like I'm using the word family and I'm like, it's this whole kumbaya thing. We're a team and we work together as a team. But sometimes someone on the team gets an injury and we all have to come together. Or it's something as simple as when your people come in in the morning, I've been in workplace situations where I've witnessed someone walks in and the person at the front doesn't look up and they just head down and whatever, they grumble, like whatever. Instead of looking someone in the eye, good morning, how are you doing today? Like actually giving a crap about people. Right. Yeah. Do they actually care? Do they actually want to be there? Yeah. I think it does get confusing when people say, hey, we're a family here. Because we're not a family at work. Because you can leave. You can leave the team. So I think it's better to think of ourselves as a high performing team instead of Yeah. So do you, so have you talking about that aspect? Um, do you like what size teams do you like working in? Because sometimes you have solopreneurs where they just want to be by themselves. And other times you're part of like a team of a thousand people and you don't know anybody. So do you have like a sweet spot for myself? Yeah. Um, so I've only ever really worked in small teams. Um, I don't, I, I've never had the experience of working, you Um, yeah, it's probably a I think so. And, you know, back to the point of what we were talking about with people having this heart centered approach with people, like I'd never been in a company of. you know, 20,000 people. So I don't know how that would work and if that would translate, but I certainly think in small business, which is the majority of business in North America, in small business, I think that's where you can win and where you can have an edge is to really, really care about your people. So I guess with that said, it would That's awesome. Yeah. And I'm the same way I I'd much prefer to be on a small team. Like I'd say 10 people, because once you get, like, if you have a hundred people you have to interact with, you're not really building relationships. It's much more robotic and you can't get to know people. So on a smaller team, you can, and you can actually care and share that. So that's great. Well, one of my other questions for you is about obstacles you faced and you've identified a few of them, like the mindset you had to get around. and what people were recommending. Are there some other obstacles on The business we're in right now, you mean, or Well, you get to pick, you get to pick. The one you're in now is probably very fresh because you're dealing with problems today, right? Yeah, so, When we first bought this business, we actually, so get ready for this. We bought it remotely. So we weren't, yeah. So we were in Canada and we knew we wanted to buy a business in the US because we knew we wanted to move here. And so we started looking at businesses. We actually had put an offer in for an HVAC company and the day that everything was gonna be signed, the Yeah. Yeah. It was stressful. I mean, first world problems, that's fine. So, um, but it happens in business and that's, that's one of my big lessons in business is that not to not get excited, but just nothing is finalized until pen is on paper. Until it's signed, nothing is happening. You can say, oh my God, so-and-so said this, and this is going to happen, and they're going to collaborate with me on this. It's like, this is all great. Let's be positive. But it's also 50-50 at this point, unless something is signed. And so that's what happened. And I was like, okay, it's par for the course. Like it's not my first rodeo. So we started looking at other businesses. We found this one, but because we had sort of the timeline was progressing as we were, you know, the deal fell through, we were looking for new businesses. We were on this timeline and we were actually pressured to buy something quickly. So we were like scrambling and looking for something. So we found this business, we didn't have time really to come down, visit, work with the team, boots on the ground. And so we did our due diligence from afar. I had my CPA friend look at the numbers, everything. It wasn't perfect, but we were on this timeline and we were really willing to forego a lot of the things that we may have not overlooked had we been Well, buying the business with like this stressed timeline and willing to sort of overlook things. So that was the first thing. Then we got here boots on the ground and it wasn't what we thought. So But it was much more than that. And we had a decision to make, and that was a major, major obstacle because it really wasn't what we thought. We could have gotten out. We could have backed out of it. We could have packed up and gone home. And it was a big part of the discussion at that time. And we just said, okay, we can complain about it. We can stop complaining about it. There's only a couple of decisions to make here. And what do you wanna do? And we were like, okay, let's just, stop complaining and get into entrepreneur mindset, which is positive, you know, go get her mindset and decide to focus on what's going right instead of focus on what's going wrong. And we just decided to go for it. So we turned the business around completely. And in a year and a half, we have 4X Yeah, we really like hold our bootstraps up. And we were like, we're just, you know, we're just going to focus on what's going right. Because the thing is, when you're a couple, and or even if you're, you know, just business partners, or whatever, you spend a lot of time together. And you can really fire each other up, right, that all it takes is one person to just slide down that ladder, and be like, oh this sucks like look at this and then you open up pandora's box and then it gives permission to the other person to start complaining as well and now you're just complaining together and it builds and it builds and it builds and it really lends itself to nothing and you're not solving any real problems and you're not moving forward So that's what we did. So biggest obstacle is really the business itself and everything that came with it. And we were just like, okay, what the heck do we do? And we just decided to go for Sounds like that was the right move because other people might try to turn it around, and then it doesn't work, and then they're in a bigger situation. So, is this business you own with your husband? That's great. So, I've heard that if you have a partner, either a spouse or a business partner that's a good match to work with, that really, one, accelerates your success, which it looks like you did four times in a year and a half. And it also helps on that emotional toll that you go through. So I'm really solo. I bought a few businesses, and I've always been the sole owner. And it's lonely. You're like on this island. You have no one to talk to. There's people you can talk to, but they don't get it. You have to get them up to speed every time. And that's exhausting, right? So it's really good that you and your husband are able to work together. And Yeah, for sure. I think even just if you're not in business together as a couple and you are both entrepreneurs, that is also helpful, even as just a start, because you both understand the lifestyle and the culture that you're in. I remember back when I had my holistic health spa, Johnny, my husband was working a job and he'd never been in business for himself. And so I remember, you just nailed it. Like I felt so alone in the, feeling of just what it was like the daily experience. And I was, I was a, you know, solo owner and all of that. And I used to say to him, I feel like I come home because I was working crazy long days back then. And, you know, other things that I, I've changed along the way that I do better now, but back then it was crazy. And I would come home exhausted. I said to him, I feel like I put on my, I wake up every day, I put on a helmet, I get inside of a cannon, I get shot out of the cannon and I go like a rocket all day long for like 14 hours. And then I come home and I sit on the edge of the bed and I take off my helmet and I go to sleep and then I wake up again and I do the same thing. It's like helmet, cannon, sleep. That's all I did every day. And nobody can understand that. And it's so lonely when you're Right. I like that image. Yeah. Put down the helmet, trying to protect yourself, but it's, it's doesn't actually protect you because it's Right. Well, I'm, I'm excited to ask you about customer experiences. So you've, it sounds like you've had a lot of different customers over your whole, whole life, depending on the business that you're in. So can you share a customer or client story that taught you Yeah. So I actually, there's lots. Um, but the one thing that I would say taught me an unforgettable lesson was when my holistic health spa closed, I closed it. I went to work for a boutique competitor, very similar business. And I went to work with them in a profit sharing capacity. So I wasn't an owner, but I was working with a mentality of ownership, which is all I know how to do anyways. So even if I wasn't profit sharing, I'd still be doing the same thing. It's just who I am. Exactly. Regardless, The reason, and I had offers because I had my business for so long and I had built a reputation at that time in the city, when people heard my business close, they figured I would be a good fit for them to come help them build on what they were doing. And so I had choices and I decided to go with this one boutique studio, but health spa, um because of the guy at the helm and he had gone to the Wharton School of Business. He was very smart and I in my contract I said even though I technically I wouldn't be reporting directly with him and I wouldn't be kind of communicating with him that was part of my contract. It's like I'll come to you if I'm close to you, because the whole reason of me wanting to go there was so that I could learn from him. And I figured if I can get close to this guy, then I'm going to be a sponge. So back to the unforgettable lesson of the client experience. So stuff happened all the time, of course, because that's what happens in business. This one particular thing happened. I don't even remember what it was, but it was a client that was very unhappy. We had dropped the ball on something. And I remember that night we had finished work. And he had turned the client experience around. He gave her a bunch of extras. He went above and beyond, freebies, this, that, and the other thing. And he just rolled out the red carpet for her. And she was very happy and so happy. She was happier than she was prior to shit Yeah, so she went from being really upset to extra happy. Well, she went from being a regular client and then something happened and then she became a super fan. And so I was amazed to watch this process happen. And I asked him, I just said, wow, that was really great what you did. I can't believe she's so happy. What a relief. It was very stressful for me. And he said, there actually was a study done years ago, I don't know what the study is, but he referenced the study and he said they actually tested when customers had a poor experience, that if the business can go above and beyond, not just like give you what you think is fair, but like throw everything at you, red carpet, everything that you're like, oh my gosh, like this wow experience that you actually become more sticky as a client than having just purchased the service or the product from the business in the first place and just being a regular client. So you actually elevate the client experience even more from them having that bad experience. I never forgot that. I never forgot that. And so now this is what I do in my business. This is what I do when I consult people for business, because I help people in business too. And I know it's hard as a small business owner to give up the small profit that you're getting from that one transaction with that client. And you think to yourself, oh my God, I'm only making $50 on this transaction. I can't possibly give 75, you know, but you have to, I'm going to lose money, but you have to kind of get out of the scarcity mindset and just understand what that is going to do for your business. Um, and now obviously in the world of Google reviews and all of that, it's like a real thing. Like these are things you need to think about, but that stuck with me forever. And this is how I function in my business all Wow, so if you have a client with a bad experience, you actually, like, not dissatisfy them, but oversatisfy them, and that- Oversatisfy, like, So, if something happens in our business, I don't just say, like, if they're not happy with the result of something, I'm not gonna say, oh, well, you could, we'll do it. Like, we just won't charge you for it. Like, that's the expectation. Yep. So they're gonna be like, well, damn straight, you're not gonna charge me for it. Because if they feel it was a crappy experience, and they're like, well, I didn't get what I signed up for, then for sure you're not gonna charge me. Like that's what I'd be thinking as a customer. Like if someone came to paint my house, And it was a crappy paint job. And I complained about it or I expressed it. And the person says, well, okay, I won't charge you for it. I'd be like, well, no kidding. It's not at all what I thought that I was gonna be getting. But if they say, you know, well, I'm not gonna charge you for it. And then you send a card with a gift, you know, through the post with a gift card. And my, you know, our sincere apologies, please enjoy this, blah, blah, blah on Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Good. That's a great lesson. So I'm going to take that with me for sure. So I think everyone could benefit from that. Even, even if it's not in your business That's awesome. That's really, really insightful. So on our, on our journey, we, uh, I know I've, I've made mistakes. over and over again, done the same thing. I'm still doing it today where I just fall into bad habits and I'm trying to refine those. Now, you've been around a lot of business owners and you mentioned consulting. I see you've given some, I don't know if they're question and answers, but have you given speeches before and done coaching Yeah, so you probably have been around a lot of business owners and you see them making mistakes. Is there anything that jumps out at you that you see happen over and over again and maybe is kind of a cultural problem in the entrepreneur world that you would I think there's lots. We're human. I think the biggest thing is undoing the mental programming of really being human. And the main thing is getting out of the scarcity mindset, which is something I just alluded to in the previous example, in the previous question, but getting out of scarcity mindset and going into this growth mindset or fixed mindset versus growth mindset. And I think that's one of the main things. I think that's really something that keeps us small as entrepreneurs. And it's very easy to go there. It's very easy to sort of close down and say, oh, well, I can't afford that. Or, you know, I'm I'm going to do it scrappy. And yes, there are phases in business and there is a scrappy phase. As Yeah, it is what it is. And we, you know, there's no going under, around, over, like you have to go through it. But some entrepreneurs stay there forever. And I think that moving out of that mindset and really, Dan Martell talks about this, right? It's like, you have to buy how you want people to buy from you. And if you want people to buy from you and not haggle you and not question your prices and every iota of value you're bringing and you have to explain yourself all this stuff, then you need to buy like that. And you need to run your business like that. And that was something that I had to work through. I see a lot of entrepreneurs needing to work through that. I talk to entrepreneurs all the time that say, you know, oh, I'm just, I'm doing all of this myself. And that's it. I can't afford to hire a video editor. I can't afford to hire an executive assistant. People laugh when I say you need to hire an assistant and it sounds so bougie. Like when you say you need an assistant, they think, oh, well, it's someone following you around with a notepad and you're dry cleaning. Like you need an assistant, you know? You need help. And they laugh like, oh, that would be nice. It's like, no, it's a necessary thing. And I see entrepreneurs drop the ball all the time, like non-returned emails, trying to just hold it all together. And it's that scarcity mindset that keeps them there. And essentially, I get it. It's hard mentally to think, okay, I'm gonna spend this money. in the hopes, like, how is an assistant gonna make me more money? But that's, again, that more advanced sort of business understanding, Yeah, I think it helps to have a goal that you're working towards, because when you have a big goal you're working towards, then it makes those smaller investments, like hiring people, make more sense. Like, yeah, I'm trying to accomplish something huge. Of course I need help. You can't accomplish, you can't conquer the So that's, again, that's unlearning, right? That's evolution, that's education. Like you have to, those are advanced concepts, even though for us, they're very simple and they're very obvious. It's like, well, duh, but you Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely true. And it's, it's hard to know exactly when to make those decisions because we've all made a decision to hire somebody and it hasn't worked out, like we get burned. And so then we get scars and we don't want to repeat that, but you have to make mistakes. Otherwise you're never going to actually go Yeah, and I think one of the big things too is like, and this is a big lesson that I've learned along the way, is just because we've done it and it didn't work, it doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's just the way that you did it didn't work. And chances are you didn't do it properly. Because if you're just trying things, It, you know, you have to be able to do it properly. And so, yes, if you hired in the past and it didn't work, like, you know, we see in the elite community, for example, people say, well, I've hired an assistant in the past and it was a mess. But yeah, now we have a system for hiring. Now we have a playbook. Now we know, you know, we know what we're doing. So now the hire that you're gonna do is going to be much better. Exactly. Well, I'm really curious about what you're working on right now, because it sounds like you have a few things going on because you have your, your business. So can you tell me about the things you're doing? And then I really want to know where you're taking them. Like, what's your vision for your future? You mentioned that you're Yeah, so we gave ourselves a five-year plan. We're a year in, a year-ish in, and so essentially four years now. And the goal was to build the business to sell. In terms of a number, we actually haven't put a number to it yet. I guess that's perhaps just lack of experience in this particular industry. So we're learning the industry as we go to see, you know, what's possible then. Although with that said, it doesn't really matter because just because, you know, businesses in this category sell for X, Y, Z, you could sell it for, you know, ABC. So it doesn't really matter. You do you. We know we wanna sell it for seven figures. It's a lofty goal and we're just pushing as hard as we can. In terms of where we're at now, I mentioned we've already forex the business. The plan is to continue to do that. We actually want to 5X the business within the next year. So we're working pretty relentlessly on just systems right now. I would say the biggest thing we're working on currently is all the boring stuff. So systems and operations, it's really the foundation of success and turning this business from an owner operator to a real business. And that's, you know, that's what we've been doing since the beginning. And we're, you know, basically navigating Good. Well, maybe I can, maybe I can help a little bit in that world. I would love that. I know that you have experience in that. So please share. Well, I, I climbed the corporate ladder in the waste industry a while ago and I jumped off to buy a business. I bought a dumpster rental business and it was doing about a million in revenue. when I bought it, a little less than that. And so I ran it for four or five years and doubled it to 2 million. So not nearly the growth that you had, like as far as speed, but we did double it. I say we, cause I don't do anything by myself. And I just sold it last December. And the sale price is for us in our industry is based on EBITDA. So that's earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation. And so that calculation was really, really important. So I knew that going in. I didn't really have a plan for what I was going to do when I took it over. I just knew that I wanted a healthy business and healthy businesses grow. And that's kind of where I left it. I wasn't trying to do a lifestyle business, which is what a lot of people, a lot of our peers do. They do enough so they're comfortable. I did want to systematize it. It was an afterthought. I really didn't want to sell it. I decided to make that as a family decision because it took me away from my kids just because it was four hours away. So could you imagine buying, you know, if you bought that business in Canada and didn't move to Florida, like very hard to grow that business. Big time. Yeah, but I decided to hire a broker because the broker was able to put me in front of, I don't know, 30 different buyers. I don't even know how many people they talked to. And so we were able to get the best price because Yeah, yeah, but it was a lot of fun. And knowing that I wanted to systematize it because that was the right thing to do. It happened to lead to the opportunity to sell it because it's a lot more attractive that way. You might get down this journey and say, wow, the business runs itself. I don't want to sell this thing, or you'll know what it's really, really worth. Like if I didn't sell the business, I knew how much cash it was gonna produce. And so that let me say no to, like people offered us way less than I wanted and I knew it was not a good deal because Right. That's really good. When you're in a negotiation, your strongest lever is walking away. Like you can, if you can't walk Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We, we totally get that. And very similar to what you're talking about. Um, it's, we understand what the components are in this business in order to sell it so that you're not just selling a job to somebody. And we know what the important steps, you know, the important benchmarks are along Right. Well, um, the more sticky your customers are, which you actually mentioned earlier, the, the, the more valuable your company is. So if, if you have recurring customers that speaks, that that's great. So I Yeah. So when we first bought the business, we bought a there, they had about 650 clients and, um, we did not know that. a large portion of them were not being nurtured. And yeah, and so when I called people, you know, from when we took over the business, a lot of them didn't remember who the company was. Yeah, they didn't really care. And in this business, also in tile and carpet cleaning, like it's not a business where you build a relationship with your carpet cleaner, generally speaking. We have made friends with other carpet cleaning businesses since then. And one guy in particular, he's been in business for almost 40 years and his clients are friends with him and he goes and sees them every year. So yes, it's possible, but this business, the owner was absentee. And so there was really no nurturing going on. And so we actually lost a lot of clients. And what we realized coming into the business is that the clients that they were servicing, we were not really interested as much in that demographic anyways. And we figured this is probably not a blessing in disguise, but a good opportunity for us to turn things around anyways and go after a demographic that was going to yield higher returns. So that's what we did. So we rebranded the company. We completely, you know, we kept the name, but apart from that, we changed everything. And then we went after a more affluent clientele. So our clients now, I would say, are very different, like quite different from how we started. Now we're, like I said, we serve a more high-end clientele. We do a Really? Yachts? For carpet? I wouldn't Well, because tile and carpet cleaning does like that, that sort of niche. We also do upholstery, like indoor furniture, outdoor furniture, area rugs, like stuff like that. So yes, like a lot of the yachts have the furniture, you know, outdoor furniture, indoor stuff Well, that makes sense. They want it to be really nice so that when they entertain or having fun on the yacht, it's probably in great I mean, it has to be beautiful. Yeah. Like regular boats, they care less about it, but yeah, these yachts and super yachts that we're on, you can't have a Exactly. So we do a lot of that. Now we have some celebrity clients. which we have acquired along the way. And this is kind of what we do. And then one of the things, so to your point about having this recurring business is we've built also a commercial client base. And this was something that they didn't really have in the previous business. And so I would say now we're probably at about 20% commercial. We're looking to grow that a little bit more. simply for the reason that we know that those recurring maintenance plans are what is really important for a buyer. Even though the margins on those are way less than, Yeah, but sustainable subscription-based or contract-based. You can plan for that, Exactly, exactly. So we figured, let's get those recurring contracts. Like I said, the margins on those are minimal compared to the residential, especially when you're doing this super high-end home with beautiful things. There's a charge for that. When you're doing commercial glue-down carpet at a restaurant or whatever, it's a cheap job. they need it done every six months or they need it done every quarter. So this is really attractive for a buyer. And that's one of the things that we're also focusing on is just kind of generating that to get a little more stickiness in the business and that guaranteed money for Wow. Well, that's great. So it sounds like you, you know, where you're going, you're trying to grow it and you have an exit exit plan in five years or at the five year mark. So yeah. Is, is there any, any major obstacles for growing it? It sounds like you're I wouldn't say major obstacles, just like any business, capital is just injecting the capital in to make it grow faster. We put a lot into it initially because like I said, there were some unforeseen expenses that needed to be done in order to get the business to the start line, which we thought we were already there. And then we were like, okay, we're not. So it's really that, but that's the game. It is, you just have to remind yourself of that sometimes because you can get kind of in the weeds in your head and then you forget that it's supposed to be fun. And you're like, oh yeah, this is like, nobody's dying. Like it's fun. Like this is actually really funny story. You really hit the nail on the head. So when we first arrived and we were going through all this like stuff and this turmoil and I was talking to a friend and i said oh the everything sucks like there's this and there's this and i was just complaining and like throwing it all out there and then she was like Isn't this what you This is what you're playing. This is what you wanted. This is what Yeah. She goes, isn't this what you wanted? Because what I wanted was I wanted like hair pulling back adventure. I wanted major challenge, like, you know, really like So you got it. You got the adventure. I got it. It brings stress with Who are you to think you're going to have all of those things with no Right, yeah. Well, then it wouldn't be fun, right? If it was predictable, Right. That's true. Yeah. It's much more exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I have, that's, that's right. So the running the dumpster business was the most exciting time of my life. And I, and I missed that excitement because it was really unpredictable. Things were broken all the time. It was when things were going the worst that we had more stories and Of course. And when you're in like head in your hands and you're like, and you're like, what is going on? That's, I just tell myself, oh, this is gonna make an epic story. Yeah, you have to document it as you go so you don't forget those nuances, right? I really do. And I have to, I think I have to talk about it more on social media because it is like, there are really funny things that happen. You know, they're like, they're so, like gut-wrenching, but like you laugh at them at the same time. But then I'm kind of torn with sharing it on social media because I don't want it to come off like I'm complaining, you know? So yeah, I kind of have to find a way to like share it. So I guess just say like, here's a really funny story for you, like crazy story, Yeah. There's a balance there. I guess there's a balance there, but I don't know. I think, Oh, it's okay. You can always delete it later. So share it. And then if you decide it was too much, yeah, you can always take it down. Well, I wanted to ask some non-business questions and you know, we're at, we're, we're at our time, but I still have wanted to keep talking. So because you're in the health world and you know, health things, I would love to be more aware of them. So I started. I guess consuming, what do you call it? Drinking. I put turmeric, turmeric with black pepper into some of my drinks. Wow. And I started putting ginger in some of my drinks too. Now I started putting turmeric in because I heard turmeric's amazing for you. Is Okay. So that's good. Yeah. And I was told that if I put black pepper in So if I don't put black pepper in, I might not get the benefits of Yeah. I don't know if you're not getting the benefits or maybe not as much, but it does help with absorption for sure. If you just Yeah, that's what I do. Yeah. Um, I figured out how much one teaspoon is in my hand, so I don't have to get a spoon. My wife is very particular with making sure the measurements are, are perfect. And I'm not, I'm just like, I don't have time to grab a spoon. It just takes an extra step. I won't do it. But, and then on ginger, ginger is really bitter. I didn't know how bitter ginger It is, it's also really good for inflammation, for bringing Yep, so I put those four things. I put turmeric with pepper, ginger with Yeah. What's non-raw, honey? I don't know if I know any honey you would buy at the grocery store, like in the regular craft section that is just, you know, like the bear or, you know, other, like just regular honey. It has to say raw and filtered. Oh, I don't know if it's, I'll I'll have to double check, because I don't know. So it says I'll double check. So what are some other spices or, herbs that we should be putting in our regular diet? Because you know, the American diet is horrible. Like we don't eat anything that's good for us. I Oh yeah, good point. That's for sure. Well, I'm plant-based, so I eat a And you're an animal lover. I know that Yes, I am, yeah. Well, yeah, I am, I would say. I eat a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables, and a lot of plant-based foods, so whole foods, yeah. And I think just the main thing in terms of your question is not eating out, like trying to not eat so much out of a box. not really eating things really with ingredients, but like just one thing, like that one ingredient, like broccoli and cabbage and sweet potatoes and things like this. And then putting it all together and making a yummy, healthy meal. And the funny thing is, is people say, what do you eat? Because if you're plant-based, you must not eat anything. And I'm like, I eat the whole plant kingdom. It's a panoply of amazing food. And when you put it all together, it's so vibrant and colorful and yummy. Yeah. Yeah. I had a salad yesterday and I had too many things. I grabbed a tomato and a pepper and a cucumber. And I was like, I can't put all this in my bowl. I got to take some of my ingredients out. Right. Yeah. And they're all good for you in a different way. Exactly. My take is that if you get hungry, you can always eat vegetables. Like that's always okay. So you can binge on vegetables. I don't know if that's ever going to hurt No, I mean, there's weird stuff going around the internet now. There's influencers saying vegetables are bad for you. I mean, I don't know where that's coming from. And I know that, well, I do know part of it is because they're talking about the oxalates in vegetables, which vegetables certainly have, but to the level that they actually can cause problems, I mean, nobody's eating remotely Yeah, so the internet should stop that because that's fear-mongering on healthy food that actually keeps you free Cool, I also noticed you're a Pilates instructor. Pilates, yeah. Pilates. And I learned that one before I ever heard of yoga, and I like it way better. I'm a big fan of Pilates. But I don't actually know the difference between the two. I just know that when I've gone to a yoga class, it What part? I don't know. I felt like my abs got worked way, way more. Like my abs felt much stronger. My legs felt stronger. So what is the difference between those two activities? Is it the motions? Is it the theory behind it? Yeah. So all of that. And did you only Okay. Okay. Cause I was going to say like, it wouldn't be fair to compare let one class to one class. You kind of got to do several different types because there's different types of Pilates and there's different types of yoga. So if you only did one style of yoga, it might actually be the style or the teacher or, you know, um, so when it comes to Pilates, like people, who I've spoken to who, it happens rarely, but if they've ever said like, I don't really like Pilates, I'm like, it's the teacher, like for sure. Because that makes all the difference. I truly believe it's impossible somebody doesn't like Pilates. Pilates is amazing. And yes, to your point, they are very different. So Pilates is a core strengthening workout. And when people think of core, like the lay person thinks core means abs. but actually your core, according to your physiology, is your shoulder girdle, your middle, and your hip girdle. So if I cut off my arms and my legs, it would be like a half-wet suit, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so that's your core. Because I definitely did a lot with my hips. Like, Yeah, yeah. Your whole middle, your abdominal belt, how the connection of the shoulders into the torso sits, the hip connection, the hip integrity, that's all Pilates. Yoga focuses much more on stretching and flexibility. Pilates doesn't really I don't have much of that, even though sometimes I talk to people, usually guys, because they kind of don't really know what Pilates is, and they'll say, oh, yeah, I've heard Pilates is really good for you. I need to do it because I need to stretch. And I'm like, oh, there's not much stretching in Pilates. It's a workout. It's really hard. It is really hard, definitely. A lot of sweating, for sure. Yeah. And muscles I didn't even know existed hurt so much. For Yeah. And it helps you in every activity you do. So if you're a runner, if you are, uh, you know, if you do triathlons, if you're a rower, like whatever you do, tennis, Pilates is the base. It creates the foundation for you to be strong Yeah. I think of it more of a mobility increases your mobility. I Yeah. Well, don't stop because it, as a teacher, it forces you Wonderful. Well, how, how, Jennifer, how can people find you on social media or the internet? What's the best way for them to engage you if Yeah, I guess on Instagram is the best way at Zen Jennifer. Um, and then I guess that's Okay, great. So I'll put that in the show notes so everyone can find you there. And yeah, I had a great time talking with you today and I'm no, I know we're going to interact more through elite and through Instagram. So I hope that you keep growing your business. If there's any other questions you No, I just thank, you know, I, congratulations on your, on your podcast. And I know that it's going to be super successful, just like you built your business and had your exit and that's so impressive. So yeah, I wish you all the best on Thanks, Jennifer. Well, and thank you everyone for listening to Waste to Wealth. We hope you have a great day and keep on rolling. Have a good day. Thank you. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of Waste to Wealth. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you connect with us on social media and subscribe to the show wherever you consume podcasts. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review and tell a friend about the show.